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Section 377 is Repealed. What next?


Submitted by OhMojo Location: All India (All India, India)

Congratulations to the gay community of India. Section 377 has been repealed and with this being gay or consensual gay *** is no longer a crime.

However it will still take time for acceptance by the society. So what should be the next step for the community?

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Displaying 1 to 50 of 55 comments.
Previous comments: 1  2  

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Cute guy bbsr
Posted On Sep 6, 2018 - 06:59 AM

That's a huge step towards fulfilling a true community with all kinds of people. By this court verdict, our status in the society might have changed a bit but the main thing is still lies in inside people's mindset. I highly doubt if this verdict affect any parent's lifestyle knowing their son/daughter is part of LGBT community irrespective of their education, i m repeating this as i know those people who likes to be in the bed with a gay or lesbian and still beat the *** out from a gay person says they don't really have any base with their sexuality. And mind you, these type of people are many, actually huge in our society. Ample contradiction can be set but little many knows about our societies in depth character of so called straight and married guys. So, the next step must gather all kinds of people in our society in under one roof, not only LGBT community , so that every people should know that being a part of LGBT isn't a crime any more rather it's purely normal like a normal person characterization. In different cities these type of open discussion should happen that maybe play a little part but maybe, it can act upon our blessings in disguise. Who knows, we better act rather do nothing about it. Cheers.

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surendra9217
Posted On Sep 6, 2018 - 06:59 AM

Congratulations to all of us.
A log fight finally ended with a good result
But now a new fight against backward thought

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jordan3895
Posted On Sep 6, 2018 - 07:01 AM

happy independence day to all my brothers and sisters

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BjCockslut
Posted On Sep 6, 2018 - 07:05 AM

Congratulations everyone... at least government accepted us.. Next step is to change the mindset of people towards us

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BigBoyMayan
Posted On Sep 6, 2018 - 07:09 AM

This is Indeed a truly historic and landmark decision by the Supreme Court. Not only did they correct the mistakes of the last judgement, they have gone way beyond by including all the fundamental rights that should be afforded to the LGBT community. They have ensured that even the government cannot bring in a legislation that can reverse this decision.

We can finally stop living in fear and be ourselves.

The next step is of course to try and bring in acceptance by removing the wrong impressions and prejudices associated with the community. This has to start first within the community. There is so much prejudice and discrimination within. That should be first taken care of. Only then we can hope for acceptance by the heterosexuals as well.

Congratulations to one and all. And best of luck for the future.

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Silvertop
Posted On Sep 6, 2018 - 07:20 AM

Wonderful news. We owe all of this to the handful of very brave humans who have been fighting for us all these years. It's a feeling of great relief.

Yes, we have a long way to go to gain acceptance. I can never come out to my totally homophobic family ( I tested the waters and was disgusted by the response from otherwise really nice siblings, aunts and uncles). But hopefully, the next generation will have it easier.

God bless all the people who slaved so hard and risked so much to give us our freedom


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munnabhai
Posted On Sep 6, 2018 - 08:59 AM

Let us accept this verdict with maturity and responsibility... Let it not be overturned again like last time by stupid acts...and this judgement in no way ensures frivolous activities in the open and public places.
So let's behave ourselves in order to achieve bigger goals....

Happy independence Day to all of us.....

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BigBoyMayan
Posted On Sep 6, 2018 - 11:14 AM

Munnabhai, I'm not sure what you mean by the previous judgment being overturned "last time by stupid acts". It had nothing to do with how the community behaves or behaved in specific instances. It was a judgement by a couple of very prejudiced Supreme Court judges! The current bench accepted that the logic used in that judgement was completely flawed. They decided the case against the LGBT community because it is a "miniscule minority"! How did they even become Supreme Court judges is beyond comprehension for me. All legal experts agree that that was a very bad judgement and was the reason why the curative petition and the current petitions were admitted by the Supreme Court subsequently. Normally acceptance of such petitions against a supreme court judgement is very very rare!

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munnabhai
Posted On Sep 6, 2018 - 11:21 AM

@ Bigboy...

My sole intention of posting my comments was to make people aware that freedom comes with a lot of responsibility.... It's just the first step...long road ahead before societal acceptance is gained...for which we need to act more rationally and judiciously....

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BigBoyMayan
Posted On Sep 6, 2018 - 11:27 AM

This I also agree with. We need to ensure that while we enjoy the night rights, we do not forget about our responsibilities. Having said that, lets also not go the normally accepted ways of the society too where sometimes even wrongs are considered ok just because those have been the regular tradition for ages. Lets forge new ways and new way of thought too. As they keep saying "nayi soch" in Hindi.

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Pr€m
Posted On Sep 6, 2018 - 11:35 AM

Many Many Congratulations to all...

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BigBoyMayan
Posted On Sep 6, 2018 - 01:06 PM

When the Delhi High Court decriminalized homosexuality in 2009, I was very happy with the way the judgment was worded. It was a truly progressive judgement. Unfortunately the Supreme Court totally messed it up in 2013 when it stayed the Delhi HC's judgement.

Now however the constitutional bench of the Supreme Court has gone beyond what the Delhi HC said in its judgement. Some of the things mentioned in today's judgement fills my heart with joy and makes me have faith in our Judiciary once again. Here are a few things that the Supreme Court said in its judgement....

Homosexuality is not a mental disorder.

History owes an apology to LGBT persons for social ostracisation.

Sexual orientation is a biological phenomenon, any discrimination on this grounds is violative of fundamental rights. Sexual orientation is natural. Discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation is violation of freedom of speech and expression.

Denial of self expression is akin to inviting death. Sustenance of identity is the pyramid of life.

Section 377 is irrational, arbitrary and incomprehensible as it fetters the right to equality for LGBT community. The LGBT community possesses same human and fundamental rights as other citizens. The majoritarian views and popular morality cannot dictate constitutional rights.

Privacy of human beings constitutes the cardinal rule of our constitution. Make way for progressive realization of social and economic rights and to begin a dialogue for ensuring individual rights reports, have to bid adieu to perception stereotypes.

Punishment under Section 377 made the LGBT a closeted community, destroyed the identity of members and breached their dignity, all part of right to life. The state has no business to get into controlling the private lives of LGBT community members or for that matter that of any citizen.

And finally this is what Chief Justice Deepak Mishra said expressing the voice of the LGBT community: "I am what I am. So take me as I am. No one can escape from their individuality."



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Cuteguysblr
Posted On Sep 6, 2018 - 01:30 PM

Congratulations and Thanks to all.

This is just first step. Still long way to go to achieve equality with respect to marriage, property rights, insurance etc.

What will happen next?
1. Earlier if someone loot us during a hook up we can't even go to police. Now we can go and file complaint in police without any fear.
2. I believe corporate companies will be more inclusive towards us. Some companies might bring medcliam policy for same *** partner as well. But not all
3. Someone might file case in court to legalize same *** marriage, property rights etc
4.Few celebraties might come out from closet. But surely not all since society still not accepting us completely. Long way to go

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Gulfisaforever
Posted On Sep 6, 2018 - 02:43 PM

Great victory for the community. I would like to first of all thank all the people and organizations who fought so hard on our behalf.

As for what next, apart from everything that has already been pointed out, i think same *** marriages, the legalization of it, would be the logical next step. But it will be take some time for sure, considering all the religious god men and their minions, wanting to grab limelight by just passing hate comments. I m sure they will do tht when it comes to same-*** marriages. But love shall prevail over hatred. Congrats to all. Great victory for human rights in a country like India.

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Lovesushil
Posted On Sep 6, 2018 - 06:26 PM

Thanks all friends

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shail4u143
Posted On Sep 6, 2018 - 07:40 PM

They have only allowed us.
Acceptance will still take time.

Still people think that we people are full with a lust only.

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Valentine84
Posted On Sep 6, 2018 - 10:24 PM

Happy and best wishes to all folks. Atlast the apex court gave a historic judgement.

What next ????
For gay men
----------------
- Police or muggers can't use this threaten us for some easy money.
- Gay men could feel more secure and can live without any guilt.

For society
--------------

- Though societal acceptance would be far fetched dream atleast now gay men can't me looked down as law breakers.
- An inclusive society could prevent stigma discrimination. Of course many gay men prefer to stay in closet because of that.
- Though 'coming out' is purely a personal choice, atleast by this verdict more gay men could come out without inhibitions.

What more
--------------

- Steps need to be taken in Legalising same *** marriages
- Better adoption and surrogacy laws for same *** couples.
- Only consenting adult *** is decriminalised and so stringent laws should be framed to bring down child *** abuse.
- Just like marital *** is treated as an offence, gay *** should also be treated the same.

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Tanha dil
Posted On Sep 7, 2018 - 01:40 AM

Dear Admin thanks for the info. This is a great step towards creating a truly independent nation. Now next is to bring about a change in the thoughts of society and the best place to start this is home. So let's start from our home slowly and carefully. Let us be bold and clear about our sexuality and let's come out in the society as LGBTs Gays and Lesbians.

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jackscs2005
Posted On Sep 7, 2018 - 04:40 AM

Indeed a big win for us. Long waited decision. Being Gay is no more an offence in India.
But still going to be Taboo in Society.

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BigBoyMayan
Posted On Sep 7, 2018 - 05:50 AM

It feels like the levels of acceptance is definitely much more than I thought earlier at least in the urban and the internet crowd.

Yesterday #Section377 was the top trending hashtag on twitter not just in India but worldwide. I saw that a majority of the comments were overwhelmingly positive.

Most online news outlets and tv channels also covered this news comprehensively and I didn't see any outlet carrying any negative feature on it. Google added a rainbow flag with the words "Celebrating equal rights" on its homepage! Facebook India also changed its DP to display the rainbow flag.

Of course there were a few comments on twitter and people on TV (like Subramanian Swamy) who were out with their homophobic agenda but these were definitely a very miniscule minority! The overall coverage was definitely very positive.

Even the congress party has officially commented that this is a good step. BJP of course is silent on the issue and it is obvious that they are not in favor of gay rights but do not want to show their homophobic side so they are keeping silent. Distressingly, no tweet from the PM congratulating the LGBT community on this monumental step forward like he does for every major or minor milestone in India. It is of course on expected lines as he has been silent on this issue and so it is obvious where he and his party stand on this matter.

During the hearing, the government had also officially told the Supreme Court that while they are leaving the fate of Section 377 on the court, they definitely do not want the court to overreach and go beyond section 377. This obviously means that they did not want the court to give the community any other rights (like marriage). The BJP government will obviously object if the matter of gay marriage comes up in the courts. I'm predicting that this will come up sooner rather than later. People are very impatient now. We are almost 50 to 60 years behind the world where decriminalization of gay *** is concerned. Most of the world did it in the 60s and 70s. Gay marriage rights have been accorded in the developed world starting from the last 90s with many countries making it legal in the mid 2000s and few in the past few years. Hopefully it wouldn't be another 50 years before India does it!

I have hope that the progressive attitude of the majority will compel even the major political parties to get on board with the idea that the LGBT community deserves all the rights and so they do not shy away from doing the right thing instead of making the judiciary force it on the government.


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Rahulpatiala
Posted On Sep 7, 2018 - 07:41 AM

Heartily congratulations to all the people who are associated with the LGBTQ community. Now we are free. Implications of false cases by police personnel on gay people will be reduced. Let's now make some good cruising public place to enjoy ***.

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Darkness4
Posted On Sep 7, 2018 - 08:17 AM

Congratulations India! love you all

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Goldenage
Posted On Sep 7, 2018 - 08:22 AM

Most of the Pol parties spokesman have welcomed the SC order. However some of them still buying time to openup. They are waiting for the reaction of masses and reading the pulse of general public before making any comment. I think from heart to heart more than 60% indians above the age of 18 are happy coz at some or the other point of time in their life they would have experienced similar actions within their close circle.
Many more will now come out of the closet.

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wanttosuk
Posted On Sep 7, 2018 - 12:23 PM

Congrats guys!! Let's us celebrate!!

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JAUPEE
Posted On Sep 7, 2018 - 03:57 PM

Congratulations India! love you all

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Ebubu
Posted On Sep 7, 2018 - 10:40 PM

"Still long way to go to achieve equality with respect to marriage, property rights, insurance etc."

I really don't think so. The SC paved the way, and all it needs now is someone to challenge the law, and try to get married and requests all the rights that go along with marriage. If this is challended in court, it will be very easy to show that the restriction of marriage to heterosexuals is perfectly unconstitutional, according to the SC last decision.

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Ebubu
Posted On Sep 7, 2018 - 10:45 PM

"Yes, we have a long way to go to gain acceptance. I can never come out to my totally homophobic family ( I tested the waters and was disgusted by the response from otherwise really nice siblings, aunts and uncles). But hopefully, the next generation will have it easier.

God bless all the people who slaved so hard and risked so much to give us our freedom"

You can be disgusted by your family reactions, but they will not change their mindset if they are not confronted to reality, and to their prejudices.
Yes, there might be a difficult time to pass, but the reward is often greater afterwards. And if they still don't accept you as you are, what the heck ? You have YOUR life to live, not theirs !
I'm really angry at people who always count on others to take all the risks and then enjoy the freedom and the rights.

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explorer_1
Posted On Sep 8, 2018 - 03:08 AM

This is the best time to come out before the family if we have kept any secret because of lot of positive environment on media about gay comunity. I just feel media controls emotion of individual and since they are showing this victory in positive way, hope our family members will be able to understand the circumstance.

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fifty
Posted On Sep 8, 2018 - 04:32 AM

First of all a big thank you and appreciation to OHMOJO for this thread. It again reinforces that ohmojo is not just a dating site,it is also a platform for discussing issues related to gay.

I had tears in my eyes while I was reading the news about the verdict, the various things the judges have said.

Though the media has been mostly supportive, there are many homophobes , some open, some hidden, some who are not aware that they are homophobes, have also started speaking.
We need to speak to them calmly instead of ridiculing them.

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Blue_blooded
Posted On Sep 8, 2018 - 07:43 AM

I believe, that now given that *** (and not just gay ***) between consenting adults is not a crime, even the straight couples will be freely indulging in ***.. Hotels permitting rooms on hourly basis for adults for some good time will increase.. Gay clubs & bars will pop up openly.. Gay tourism will increase.. Gay massage parlours too obviously.. Corporates will come up with gay friendly policies and you might see openly gay colleagues around you, especially if you are in a MNC.. Gay friendly brands will come up.. For Indian economy too, increased consumption of gay specific consumables will be good..

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Bottomformarria
Posted On Sep 8, 2018 - 08:34 AM

The biggest problem to our community are those men who say that theyre "top but not gay or bi" when asked about their sexuality.

Next is to change their mindset

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fifty
Posted On Sep 8, 2018 - 12:42 PM

Wait. Don't forget the culture police
And one more thing.
Being homosexual is not just about homo ***. It's about loving the samevsex person, wanting him as a life partner.

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Ebubu
Posted On Sep 8, 2018 - 07:20 PM

"The biggest problem to our community are...."

Well, there are SO MANY problems in the Indian gay community...
One of them is the one you describe, of course.
Another one is that in order to show everyone that they are indeed gay, so many guys think they have to play sissy and effeminate, and then, of course complain that they are being rejected and ostracized. When most gays understand that they can be at the same time "out" to the world AND "normal", there'll be a great step forward for everyone.
A third one is that gays have been so used to being trampled on in total impunity (by cops and other blackmailers) that it has become second nature, and they never fight back. This law, admittedly will make blackmail much harder for the bastards, but hopefully it will give the gays the courage to become more visible in society and families.
AND this is NOT the end. The next battle is for equal rights. The road is paved and should be fairly easy, now.

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fifty
Posted On Sep 9, 2018 - 12:43 AM

Looking down upon effeminate guys is another form of discrimination and it is more inside the gay community. They are as normal as the straight acting or straight appearing. There are misconceptions about homosexuals amongst homosexuals themselves.

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BigBoyMayan
Posted On Sep 10, 2018 - 03:40 AM

Ebubu, your statement that guys can be normal without being "sissy" and "effeminate" implies being sissy and effeminate is not normal. This is a classic case of internalized discrimination within the community. As Fifty as rightly pointed out, it is absolutely normal to be sissy or effeminate. For many guys it is their innate personality. They aren't putting up an act to announce to the world they are gay. Even if they did, it wouldn't be wrong. Everyone has a right to be what they are or be what they want to be! If the gay community itself does not understand this, how do you expect the society to understand this?


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munnabhai
Posted On Sep 10, 2018 - 07:11 AM

Whatever said and done, the number of fake profiles in social media will never stop... Posting others pictures , impersonation is rampant....a young guy fist sent me friend request in a social site....I didn't reply and ignored...then he created another profile with the parameters of my likings ( having looked at the demography of my friend list ), but with fake pictures. And the moment you ask them to come on live chat, their usual alibi citing problem with their camera.... Such fakes make our community real unsafe.... One person wanted to meet up after posting his dp on a chat engine, and a place was fixed...the moment I reached there, from a distance I realized, it wasn't the same person...he kept calling and from a distance when I picked up his phone, sitting inside my car, he told the truth that he was an youngster who desperately liked my profile and hence played such a prank....such acts really isn't necessary ...there are millions of people of our choice out there, all we need is to be patient and keep our eyes open to hook up... Forced match making doesn't lead to a healthy chemistry...so my earnest request to everyone , to believe in yourself and be honest with your identity....

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sangam_m
Posted On Sep 10, 2018 - 10:31 AM

Please be aware although section 377 has been repealed it does not give you open ground to cruise in public places or do such act as would cause public indecency. Sexual orientation towards gay/lesbian or bi is decriminalised only within four walls of your home or may be temporary accommodation but definitely not in public places. So be careful lest you will have to face music. Not only it degrades you in person but the whole community is disliked because of such act in public place. Never forget, *** is very personal and private act; public display of such act will never be accepted. Do we see any straight people doing *** in public place openly in front of other people? Then why we should do it? Let's keep some decency.

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bravh77
Posted On Sep 10, 2018 - 02:28 PM

Well a big thank you to all the Heroes who fought for it for 2 decades! and ended 157 year old , victorian prejudice law. and gave our citizens legal status and protection.
Next will be MARRIAGE EQUALITY...before which we have to work towards educating the country by sensitising the LGBTQ concepts and making acceptance a bit easier. Along the side continuing the fight to redeem full rights , focusing one by one.. starting with MARRIAGE EQUALITY.

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dilse4u
Posted On Sep 10, 2018 - 02:51 PM

After 377, we need reservation so automatically we will get prefrance and respect in society...what say

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Drexel
Posted On Sep 10, 2018 - 04:09 PM

@Dilse4u, Why exactly do you think you or me deserve reservation? Has someone denied you a job because you are gay? Has a college refused to admit you because you are gay? Getting reservation is going to make your parents and friends respect you more? Please think before you talk nonsense.

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mayank_blr
Posted On Sep 10, 2018 - 04:12 PM

1) Educate kids in school that it is okay to be gay/lesbo to increase societal acceptance
2) Next step is to draft gay marriage law. According to Indian laws only a girl can be wife and only a man can be husband. So, gay marriages are not recognised.
3) 377 is gone but how about people who genuinely need it? *** against a boy is not recognized according to current laws. Change the *** law to recognise boys as *** victims and girls as rapists too

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chembur
Posted On Sep 10, 2018 - 06:45 PM

No response to Sangam M's remarks was expected ....as always.

Good one Sangam .

But I know not many would like what Sangam said .. people still want to go to imperial or behind trucks or in public loos and crib that police will harrass them...

Oh did i miss Azad maidan :)

Just think about an innocent child who walks into a loo to only find two men involved in some oral fun or a child who is returning home from Azad maidan n watches straight couple involved in boob ***

It is not only indecent but can also negatively affect child's thoughts about ***
It can also create homophobia

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fifty
Posted On Sep 11, 2018 - 04:01 AM

About Sangam's post -
There are those for whom homosexuality means indulging in homosexual acts and nothing more than that. For them the places to visit are the loos and theaters known for such acts. They wont be part of a gay pride walk or kashish. They are not looking for a gay way of life. They will or married to a girl, and this will be their secret second life. They will continue to engage in such acts. They wont bother about the image of the community or such things. Such guys will be in majority.

Then there are those who want to spend their lives with a gay partners. The issues of marriage and adoption rights matter only to such people. I guess, they will be a minority , a miniscule one. Some of them might be visiting the loos and theaters out of desperation.

I know this categorization is too simplistic and overly genetalised, but still it is there.

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Gulfisaforever
Posted On Sep 11, 2018 - 04:57 AM

Fifty i guess dont really fit into either of the two categories specified by you. But just want to say that its not mandatory for everyone to make a fuss abt their sexuality. It may not be as big a part of their life goals as may be urs. No need to look down upon them. They have their own life n agendas, just like u and me, and they are perfectly entitled to have it tht way.

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Gulfisaforever
Posted On Sep 11, 2018 - 04:58 AM

I dont*

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Rahulpatiala
Posted On Sep 11, 2018 - 11:23 AM

I would like to contradict on the thought prospect of sangam.... I have seen a gul and a boy kissing in park in movie theatres.. Pressing boobs also... It can sometimes be like a guy groped your *** in a crowded bus... It's a great fun according to me... I want to say that... I would like to go to theatres, loos to meet good guys rather than rely on grinder or any social gay app..

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Ebubu
Posted On Sep 12, 2018 - 11:32 PM

BigBoyMayan
".... implies being sissy and effeminate is not normal."
No, you're misreading what I"m saying. I'm perfectly aware that there are some effeminate and "sissy" boys who can't help it, probably. BUT, my experience of gays all around the world leads me to observe that in India particularly, boys consciously ACT effeminate and sissy JUST to show everyone that they are gay, when there's absolutely no need to ACT in that way to make a statement. I must say it's rather typical of regimes that force homosexuality into the closet, creating extreme reactions such as this one. One can easily observe, in every society where homosexuality has become a "normal" way of life, that very, very few people NEED to act in this way, as they can be who they are without acting.
Don't get me wrong, I personnally have nothing against effeminate boys, except that I pity most of them, as they are trapped in this acting role (for transexuals, it's another approach altogether, of course...). But most homosexual men are NOT transexuals, so why do they feel they need to act like transexuals ?

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Ebubu
Posted On Sep 12, 2018 - 11:45 PM

Sangam_m
"...it does not give you open ground to cruise in public places "
Well, you're right. BUT, now that it has been legalized, some public places such as bars, pubs and the like will open, creating new meeting alternatives to "*** in public places". You also need to be aware that the openness and more tolerance will bring a new look on the whole thing. You might be interested to know that in Denmark, even though it was one of the most advanced country on the LGBT rights, there's still some "cruising in public parks", and really no one gives a ***, because they have decided that it would be stupid to give a ***. So, the gays have learned to be discrete and respectful (not throwing their post-*** garbage in the woods but in plastic dumps placed there to that effect), and the straights have learned not to be offended if they happen to see something (which is extremely rare), and the police doesn't racket anyone, and everyone is happy, as it should be.
In this country, as in many Northern European countries, the attitude towards *** (and nudity, even public, in specific, accepted places) is to consider it a normal part of life, and not make such a fuss. Everyone respects each other, and there's no big fuss. Hope even India will come to that, one day... One can always dream... ;)

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BigBoyMayan
Posted On Sep 14, 2018 - 08:10 AM

Dear Ebubu, with your latest post you have only reinforced my belief that you have internalized homophobia!

Quoting you: " in India particularly, boys consciously ACT effeminate and sissy JUST to show everyone that they are gay, when there's absolutely no need to ACT in that way to make a statement."

First, where are you getting your facts from? Please don't try to pass your opinions as facts! You think majority of the effeminate and sissy guys are just putting on an act? No they aren't! In fact it is quite the opposite. They are effeminate by nature and they actually have to put on an act to behave all "manly" and non-effeminate because that's what guys like you and society expects. The guys who are brave actually be themselves and behave as per their innate nature.

Secondly, even if a gay guy is putting up an act of being effeminate, what's wrong with that? Just because he is not conforming to your or society's accepted way of behaviour?

Quote: " One can easily observe, in every society where homosexuality has become a "normal" way of life, that very, very few people NEED to act in this way, as they can be who they are without acting."

That later statement from you seems extremely ironical to me when in just the previous statement you were prescribing the "correct" way of behaviour to effeminate guys.

Quote: "I personnally have nothing against effeminate boys, except that I pity most of them, as they are trapped in this acting role"

You need to change your stupid attitude because you are just an ignorant homophobe! No one is trapped in any acting role. Majority of the effeminate men you see are just being themselves so they do not need your pity!

Quote: "most homosexual men are NOT transexuals, so why do they feel they need to act like transexuals ?"

Oh so there is a prescribed way for transexuals also to behave in your homophobic world? And anyone adopting that prescribed behaviour gets your pity?

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Gulfisaforever
Posted On Sep 15, 2018 - 06:36 AM

Ebubu, the world is what it is. Not what u want it to be. No body has any obligation to act or behave as per ur standards n definitions, which are actually very narrow minded n prejudiced to begin with. So relax, do sm soul searching if u get the time, or just let others live in peace.

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